Post by volante{Kyr} on Jan 30, 2007 13:39:51 GMT -5
To address this briefly…
A kajira is a slave, and yes, in reality does have choice, all slaves in reality have choice, to say otherwise is pure fallacy. A kajira is a special kind of a slave, true. They are Gorean slaves. The difference between a kajira and the slaves of a more mainline M/s relationship are quite pronounced however. There are variances in protocol and depth of servitude, and an understanding of ideologies and philosophies that set them apart as well as, often, the tendency towards the BDSM ‘flavors’ for the mainline M/s relationships.
I have known a few people to which the label of Gorean would be aptly applied that had long into their study of the lifestyle never read a book. People that were natural slaves or Masters that had the guidance and teachings of solid mentors on which to expound their knowledge and understanding. These are very few, at least very few have ever developed a full sense of Goreanism.
Where you may proclaim that is not necessary to read the books to be on Gor, I may agree, it’s not. You can glean knowledge that is ‘passable’, garner enough quotes, and tidbits along the way to appear to have knowledge, learn a bit more in-depth perhaps from Mentors that have invested themselves. However, those that do not bother themselves with such investigations shackle themselves to having only a cursory knowledge, a topical understanding of Gor and what it is to be Gorean.
To learn solely from mentors, or to bother with quotes torn from their context so that particles of knowledge can be consumed in easy to digest bites fails to ever provide the individual with a full feeling of the subtleties and nuances, the full ‘truth’ as it is being explained. You condemn yourself to learning Gor from the perspective of others, either your mentor, or those that chose the ‘quotes’ and however they may present them to you, in what way they are twisted or presented by that particular individual. The more you gain of this half-knowledge, the more you may convince yourself you know Gor. However you are knowing Gor only as well as you might if say someone cut a Picasso painting into small squares and then rearranged them to their liking. You are then standing back and regarding it, and though it may still be beautiful, and this point and that point may speak to you, you can not and do not have the ability to appreciate the full canvas, you deny yourself the ability to appreciate the true ‘work of art’.
I find myself frequently amused as people rise up with indignation if their Gorean label is challenged. Proclaiming their knowledge, or lack thereof is adequate, and that they consider themselves to be Gorean and that is good enough for them. Where it may be true that you can call yourself Gorean without having a full and invested knowledge of what that label represents, it carries at best a diminished bearing. After all, who can proclaim to be something, to embrace a philosophy, and a way of life, when they haven’t even taken the initiative to investigate it and try and understand it fully.. to draw from what knowledge is made readily available and allow themselves the opportunity to develop their own full perspective rather than feed off of others.
In regards to the definition of philosophy, there are answers there you are overlooking.
The pursuit of wisdom would compel a person to seek that knowledge… there are many avenues though the most clear cut and the source of it would be from the novels.
The questing of knowledge through means other that experience and or observation. Studying and discussing the philosophies, … hard to do without knowing what you’re talking about.
Speaks for itself really.
How can you analyze what you do not take the initiative to read? to understand?
The underlying theoretical principles, the foundations of Gorean thought, the logic and ethics are not something that can be understood, even on an elementary level by someone that doesn’t take the time to learn, to investigate, to question.
Again I think this speaks for itself
And last, but not least….. If you can not be bothered with learning the underlying values, without finding the truths, and examining the perspectives on your own, rather than feeding off the skewed perceptions of others, and what small inklings of knowledge you can gain, though often out of context and misrepresented, from quotes.. how can you profess to live that which you do not understand.
It is easy to rear back and battle the arguments with, ‘there are many kinds of slaves/Free’ , or ‘There are many perspectives’, or ‘not everything is contained in the books’, or even ‘there are exceptions/vast diversity in slaves/Free etc’. Yes, all of this is true, but, again, those differences, and the boundaries and the expectations, and the overall theories are not boundless. Goreanism is contained within guidelines, within the understanding and embracing of philosophies. The label is not infinitely expandable. Excessive tolerance of these ‘stretches’ in the guidelines and tenets of Gor is what has diluted the online community as it has. Either be cohesive, understand that which you profess to be, or remove the label and face the facts that not everyone is suitable to the Gorean label.
There is more than the books, yes. There are things to learn that pertain more to the true lifestyle than is in the books, and no, the books are not mandatory to ‘dabble’ at being Gorean, nor they are not necessary to call yourself Gorean, anyone can apply a label to themselves. However if you do so without the full investment, without understanding on your own the truths, the ideologies, the subtleties and the nuances that at the core make it beautiful then I think your true interest, and your personal involvement in Gor is just as topical and a bit questionable.
A kajira is a slave, and yes, in reality does have choice, all slaves in reality have choice, to say otherwise is pure fallacy. A kajira is a special kind of a slave, true. They are Gorean slaves. The difference between a kajira and the slaves of a more mainline M/s relationship are quite pronounced however. There are variances in protocol and depth of servitude, and an understanding of ideologies and philosophies that set them apart as well as, often, the tendency towards the BDSM ‘flavors’ for the mainline M/s relationships.
I have known a few people to which the label of Gorean would be aptly applied that had long into their study of the lifestyle never read a book. People that were natural slaves or Masters that had the guidance and teachings of solid mentors on which to expound their knowledge and understanding. These are very few, at least very few have ever developed a full sense of Goreanism.
Where you may proclaim that is not necessary to read the books to be on Gor, I may agree, it’s not. You can glean knowledge that is ‘passable’, garner enough quotes, and tidbits along the way to appear to have knowledge, learn a bit more in-depth perhaps from Mentors that have invested themselves. However, those that do not bother themselves with such investigations shackle themselves to having only a cursory knowledge, a topical understanding of Gor and what it is to be Gorean.
To learn solely from mentors, or to bother with quotes torn from their context so that particles of knowledge can be consumed in easy to digest bites fails to ever provide the individual with a full feeling of the subtleties and nuances, the full ‘truth’ as it is being explained. You condemn yourself to learning Gor from the perspective of others, either your mentor, or those that chose the ‘quotes’ and however they may present them to you, in what way they are twisted or presented by that particular individual. The more you gain of this half-knowledge, the more you may convince yourself you know Gor. However you are knowing Gor only as well as you might if say someone cut a Picasso painting into small squares and then rearranged them to their liking. You are then standing back and regarding it, and though it may still be beautiful, and this point and that point may speak to you, you can not and do not have the ability to appreciate the full canvas, you deny yourself the ability to appreciate the true ‘work of art’.
I find myself frequently amused as people rise up with indignation if their Gorean label is challenged. Proclaiming their knowledge, or lack thereof is adequate, and that they consider themselves to be Gorean and that is good enough for them. Where it may be true that you can call yourself Gorean without having a full and invested knowledge of what that label represents, it carries at best a diminished bearing. After all, who can proclaim to be something, to embrace a philosophy, and a way of life, when they haven’t even taken the initiative to investigate it and try and understand it fully.. to draw from what knowledge is made readily available and allow themselves the opportunity to develop their own full perspective rather than feed off of others.
In regards to the definition of philosophy, there are answers there you are overlooking.
1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
The pursuit of wisdom would compel a person to seek that knowledge… there are many avenues though the most clear cut and the source of it would be from the novels.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
The questing of knowledge through means other that experience and or observation. Studying and discussing the philosophies, … hard to do without knowing what you’re talking about.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry
Speaks for itself really.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
How can you analyze what you do not take the initiative to read? to understand?
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
The underlying theoretical principles, the foundations of Gorean thought, the logic and ethics are not something that can be understood, even on an elementary level by someone that doesn’t take the time to learn, to investigate, to question.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
Again I think this speaks for itself
8. A system of values by which one lives
And last, but not least….. If you can not be bothered with learning the underlying values, without finding the truths, and examining the perspectives on your own, rather than feeding off the skewed perceptions of others, and what small inklings of knowledge you can gain, though often out of context and misrepresented, from quotes.. how can you profess to live that which you do not understand.
It is easy to rear back and battle the arguments with, ‘there are many kinds of slaves/Free’ , or ‘There are many perspectives’, or ‘not everything is contained in the books’, or even ‘there are exceptions/vast diversity in slaves/Free etc’. Yes, all of this is true, but, again, those differences, and the boundaries and the expectations, and the overall theories are not boundless. Goreanism is contained within guidelines, within the understanding and embracing of philosophies. The label is not infinitely expandable. Excessive tolerance of these ‘stretches’ in the guidelines and tenets of Gor is what has diluted the online community as it has. Either be cohesive, understand that which you profess to be, or remove the label and face the facts that not everyone is suitable to the Gorean label.
There is more than the books, yes. There are things to learn that pertain more to the true lifestyle than is in the books, and no, the books are not mandatory to ‘dabble’ at being Gorean, nor they are not necessary to call yourself Gorean, anyone can apply a label to themselves. However if you do so without the full investment, without understanding on your own the truths, the ideologies, the subtleties and the nuances that at the core make it beautiful then I think your true interest, and your personal involvement in Gor is just as topical and a bit questionable.
